Given the back half of Revelation must be the most thorough treatment on the subject in Bible, I'm keen to know what you want to know.
So what worries and uncertainties do you have?
What gaps are there in your understanding that intrigue or frustrate you?
What have you heard said before that you're not sure about?
You ask, and we'll seek to give an answer both in the blog, but also in the talks in the weeks ahead.
I’ll kick one off:
ReplyDeleteAt some churches I’ve been to, every time someone got sick they blamed the devil, and every time someone got better they praised God for the healing. I have a couple of questions. Firstly, are most (or all) sicknesses (and/or persecutions) we face satanic attacks?
My second question is along the same lines. I've been to some churches where people would address the devil in prayers, along the lines of "We come against you Satan in the power of Jesus, knowing that you have been defeated…" Is that kind of thing a good idea?
I read a quote today that is quite helpful on this first question and I think fits real well with what Revelation and indeed most of the NT is saying.
ReplyDelete"Though the devil doesn't make you do it, he's got you dancing to his tune."
I like this because it captures the more sinister nature of humanity being deceived by Satan. Also, if the devil was solely to blame what would we do with the fact that God will judge those who are disobedient and fail to submit to Jesus?
In regards to the second question...and it's a good one...take Jude 8-10 as an example.
"8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively."
I'm not 100% clear on what all thus means but it makes me very wary about boasting or gloating over the devil. Clearly if we do we assume knowledge of things we have not been told.
Hope this helps...
Hi Marcus,
ReplyDeleteThought I'd add a few extra questions that have come up in conversations with friends at Church as a result of recent sermons. Some of these have already been answered, at least in part, but here they are anyway...
1. What's the deal with demons? Where do they come from? What is their role? How much power do they have? And how do they compare to angels? etc
2. How powerful is Satan? Clearly far less powerful than God, but more powerful than us (without God's power in us..) so how should we conceive of his power and influence?
3. If Satan can only tempt and test where God allows him to (as in Job), why does God allow him any reign at all?
4. Does Satan specifically target Christians over and above causing general havoc and destruction?
5. If he does target us, how does he do it? Practically, how can we identify the work of Satan?
6. Can we blame all sin and evil on Satan? To what extent are we responsible for our own wrongdoings and rebellion against God?
7. How should we approach this spiritual battle given that the bible calls us to fight, but also tells us that the battle has already been won?
Figure 7 questions is a good number to stop at! haha.
Thanks for this! Absolutely loving the Revelation sermons by the way - it's so challenging and encouraging to realise those crazy words are so relevant and speak such incredible truths about the amazing power and glory of our God!
Hello Marcus
ReplyDeleteI too have been encouraged by the talks, particularly in relation to prayer - thank you!
I have also been thinking about and would like to know what the Bible says and what you think about God's power and satan's power when it comes to people who suffer with mental illness and depression. What's it all for?
I know these are modern terms but I thought you may be able to shed some light on the matter.
Many thanks.
Summer, yeah this is an important issue.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be quick to rush in and associate mental illness or depression with the work of Satan directly. However at the same time, I wouldn't discount it either. Gee, that helps!
It is perhaps possible that our whole view of the 'satanic' realm is more influenced by horror flicks and the occult than it is by the Bible. In the New Testament, demonic attack is nearly always associated with and may well be almost interchangeable with sickness. That's not to say that everyone who is sick is under satanic attack, nor is it to de-spiritualize demon possession to merely a sickness. But those who suffer in the NT are under the affects of a fallen world and when Jesus arrives on the scene he releases people from what binds them.
The reason why I think this is important is because we nearly always think that if you're possessed or under attack from some evil spirit, then it must be because you've been really bad, or your grandmother was a witch, or you watched 'The Exorcists' too many times. In the NT it seems it's because you are part of a broken fallen world that Satan wishes to destroy....
To look at more on this I recommend David Powlison's, "Power Encounters: Reclaiming Spiritual Warfare".
How to regard the reasons behind individual examples of suffering depression and mental illness is not easy. If people are mentally sick, just like those who are physically sick (or overlap of both) we should be drawn to prayer, we should see a doctor and get treatment and we should hold onto the hope of the Gospel which will see us renewed and freed perfectly in the life to come.
That's not to say that depression is something the gospel can't deal with...it surely can, and many Christians I know who suffer from depression will tell me how the gospel has been powerfully effective for them. But at the same time, I'd be unwise to make promises this side of heaven about overcoming it. Depression, like Cancer, is often treatable, maintainable and, even if it's evil at work in the world...God can still use it to bring people to himself...and to bring people to be more like his Son.
Some of the great ones of old suffered depression...Spurgeon, Rutherford etc and were drawn to God in special trust in ways they may never have without their ailments.
So I guess what I'm saying is that God will even allow, use, bring people to and through depression, for his glory....glory is often the default answer yeah?
Other thoughts?
Lia...you're killing me with this 7 question thing! I'll try and add a few comments as appropriate in each. But yeah, you're point about things already being answered in the talks is a very wise thing to say...
ReplyDelete1. What's the deal with demons? Where do they come from? What is their role? How much power do they have? And how do they compare to angels? etc
Both the Devil and Demons are very rarely mentioned in the OT. Genesis 3 and Job 1-2 are most critical. But questions of their source and ultimate purpose are not really addressed. When it comes to the NT there is heaps on view...especially in and around the ministry of Jesus. Revelation 12 is extremely helpful (refer to talk) because it makes mention of the fall from heaven. Also 2 Peter 2:4 speak of demons being cast out of heaven into hell.
2. How powerful is Satan? Clearly far less powerful than God, but more powerful than us (without God's power in us..) so how should we conceive of his power and influence?
As limited and short lived. This especially in regards to Christians. If you hold onto the gospel, he may want to mess with you, but Satan cannot alter your destiny at all. Ephesians 6 is crucial here.
If the Devil is at work in our midst, Revelation 12-13 says it's actually a sign of his defeat.
3. If Satan can only tempt and test where God allows him to (as in Job), why does God allow him any reign at all?
That is hard to answer. I'm not sure the Bible really answers that question. God triumphs over evil to display his glory and for whatever intermediate reasons he allows Satan some power to be expressed ultimately and ironically for his glorious ends.
4. Does Satan specifically target Christians over and above causing general havoc and destruction?
Yes. He hates Christians because we have sided with his enemy.
5. If he does target us, how does he do it? Practically, how can we identify the work of Satan?
Hmmm...read Ephesians 6:10-20; 1 Peter 5:5;
2 Cor.4:4 for a start. I'm not sure it would always be clearly identifiable to us. Sometimes I don't need Satan at all to do the wrong thing...I can do it quite easily on my own. But temptations, trials, disunity, disputes, false teaching etc, etc...all the things that seek to kill off gospel confidence...they have the smell of Satan in there somewhere...
6. Can we blame all sin and evil on Satan? To what extent are we responsible for our own wrongdoings and rebellion against God?
We are held accountable for our own sin. We can't plead 'the devil made me do it'.
7. How should we approach this spiritual battle given that the bible calls us to fight, but also tells us that the battle has already been won?
Yeah that's the way. You cling to the one who conquered for you. You fight on your knees in humble trust that Christ's way is the best. Resisting the Devil (James 4:7) by grounding who you are in Jesus is the way of victory...because in affect, you are pointing to the battle already done and won.
Check out Jude 8-10 as well for how not to deal with the devil.
You got another 7 questions?
Hello Marcus
ReplyDeleteThanks for your response, much appreciated. I've been thinking and reading some more and I guess the next thing for me is to be thinking about how to practically show God's love to people with depression and other types of mental illness. There is heaps of information on the internet but an article I found particularly helpful was from AFES' SALT magzine Autumn 2006. The article is written by a person who has suffered with depression and whose husband currently suffers with depression. It gives a really honest and helpful perspective on how to love and care for God's people who suffer with depression. The article is called "Helping Christians who Have Depression" - couldn't find it on the internet but happy to photocopy if anyone wants to read it. Will keep thinking about these things.
Many thanks
summer